Tundra mono

Flatcoat · Post by **Flatcoat** » 2013-02-07 18:34

At Anthonys today I listened to the Monos. The rest of the system was current spec KDS/KK/242s. We compared KCTD with Tundra Stereo with Tundra Monos and Solos. During the period of listening the Monos were definitely improving as they 'ran in'.

My conclusion was that the stereo Tundra and the dynamik Twin were broadly in the same class with the stereo Tundra being my preference. The stereo Tundra is definitely a really good match for the 242s which are probably Linns most difficult speaker to control.

The Monos were then tried and they took the sound up a level. Initial comparison with the Solos showed the amps were comparable which is remarkable when you consider the Monos are one third of the price of Solos.

As more tracks were played I felt that the Mono based system was improving and sounding absolutely stunning. I feel that they will only get better as they run in.

I am now considering replacing my four KCTDs with eight Monos in my Klimax active 350 system. Who knows what that will sound like ?

Rufus McDufus · Post by **Rufus McDufus** » 2013-02-07 18:42

I did get a chance to listen to Solo vs Mono twice, once at home and once at Hidden Systems. I have to admit that in the context of the type music I listened to and all the other factors at the time I did prefer the Monos. The Solos have a bit of a metallic edge in comparison but are not totally dissimilar, perhaps a bit more forward than the Monos. Other people's mileage may vary and it is always going to be contentious especially with such a huge price difference. I was even entertaining the thought of going Solos if they trashed Monos, but the Mono made my decision extremely easy. Solos would have to be exceptional for me to justify that price anyhow, and the car would have to go in favour of a rust bucket!

(Edit 8 Monos - swoon! )

macrotech2 · Post by **macrotech2** » 2013-02-07 19:36

I had a good listen to Monos at Anthony's today as well. Flatcoat arrived a short while before I had to leave (good to put a face to the name at last!).

It's always difficult to know whether you're hearing each amp at its best when they have to be switched off and then on again during the comparisons, but I will be doing a home dem soon hopefully.

I agree with everything Flatcoat said, apart from I thought the Solos were better than the Monos in some respects. The Solos had a grip and control which the Monos couldn't match. It does sound though that the Monos were continually improving during the day. I also agree with Rufus that the Solos are a little electronic sounding in comparison with the Monos. The special thing I like about the Tundra amps is that they have a special knack of playing the music, rather than being particularly hi-fi. I hope that makes sense!

Post by **lejonklou** » 2013-02-07 23:18

Thank you all for the feedback!

macrotech2 wrote:It's always difficult to know whether you're hearing each amp at its best when they have to be switched off and then on again during the comparisons, but I will be doing a home dem soon hopefully.

I agree. Last year, both Chris and Anthony were quick to point out that normal listening - for a longer period than a few minutes - suited Tundra better than quick AB dems. I found that they were right: Switching off and then back on temporarily decreases performance.

With Mono, I looked into this and found several electrical parameters that are rock solid when the amp has been on for an hour. When switching Tundra (both Mono and Stereo) off and back on, it takes a couple of minutes before everything settles again. Even if the off-period is just a few seconds.

On the demo at Tonläget in Gothenburg, I did a little ground trick in order to avoid switching the Tundras on and off. So all four amps - two Stereo and two Mono - were switched on the entire evening. This made the AB dems easier and more accurate. Please be aware that most amps really need to be switched off when connecting and disconnecting cables. If they are left on, you risk damaging your speakers and/or your amps. The reason is a silly attribute of the RCA connector: It breaks the ground connection before the signal. This makes amps play at full blast for a short instant. Dangerous!

The ground trick makes it safe leaving the amps switched on while connecting. But you have to know exactly what you're doing. I just tried explaining it in words, but it got too long and messy. I will show you next week when I'm at Hidden Systems the 15th and Anthony's the 16th!

Flatcoat · Post by **Flatcoat** » 2013-02-09 09:38

A question for Fredrik:

Does the sound suffer if the Monos are stacked on top of each other versus separated on a shelf ?. I realise you need to put something under the feet to protect the lower amp.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2013-02-09 10:25

Flatcoat wrote:Does the sound suffer if the Monos are stacked on top of each other versus separated on a shelf ?

Perhaps I'm being picky now, but I prefer them on separate shelves. Or side by side on the same shelf.

Stereo Tundra's should definitely stand by themselves rather than being stacked. They run hotter than Mono's and therefore need their own space.

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2013-02-15 22:45

Thought I'd just post to ask if anyone had been to HiddenSystems today to listen to the Monos and meet Fredrik.

I'm going to Anthony's tomorrow myself. Looking forward to it!

Rufus McDufus · Post by **Rufus McDufus** » 2013-02-16 07:44

Hi - yes I did. We had about 6 or 7 people there not including Chris & Fredrik - maybe others later?

It was interesting. I am a Tundra fanboi as you probably know so I am fairly biased in my opinions!
While I was there we listened and then did a few comparisons. I only heard Mono vs Solo on KDS/1, KK/2, K350p, silvers, K400, but Chris did have other systems set up (which I should've listened to!). First up on rock/pop (View To A Kill - Duran Duran) & folkie artist pair who I can never remember their names - edit Angus & Julia Stone 'Big Jet Plane') the amps were pretty evenly matched. Opinions were mixed. To me the Solos still had a bit of a metallic edge which I don't find particularly pleasant. The instruments have a bit more 'air' between them on the Monos to me and it sounds a bit more organic in a way (bit of a non-technical term that - I guess I mean natural and rounded). The amps do sound surprisingingly similar in most other ways to me.
Next up a classical piece - Beethoven's 6th, can't remember the performance or composer. Well the Solos sounded in a different league on this I'm afraid. The Monos sounded rather flat and lacking in detail. The instrument characteristics were much clearer with the Solos and it was rather good to listen to.
So, odd. Maybe there was a fault with the setup of the Monos but they sounded pretty good on the preceding tracks.

And that was pretty much that for me. The reception of the Monos was very favourable and the opinion generally felt that this was an amazing feat to produce something of this quality which is several times less in price than a Solo but comparable in sound quality.

I realised just now lying awake and unable to get back to sleep what I had heard when I tried the Monos on my home system consisting of (KDS/1, KK/2, Monos or Chris's Solos, Audiovector Avant garde Arrete speakers and a mix of silvers, K400, Audiovector speaker cable, not-working-properly-yet Sarum) that was missing on the system I heard yesterday was an extraordinarily fast response, a leading-edge attack that I've not actually heard before on any hifi. The Monos didn't produce this at first but it became more apparent with a bit of running-in. This might be a function of my speakers with poncey ribbon tweeters (?!). It will be interesting to see what it's like to live with this (is it really that good to have the drumkit in my front room?!) but I certainly found it brought a level of realism that I didn't hear with Solos or anything else. I have put an order in for Monos as I do really like them so am biased, but not trying to justify my purchase, honest!

HIDDENSYSTEMS · Post by **HIDDENSYSTEMS** » 2013-02-16 11:46

Thanks Rufus for valuable feedback...and thank you for the order

I thought Fredrik chat of his history, the reasons for Tundra were great. The fact that his Monos are even considered to be worthy against Solos is complimentary. Yes a shame you never heard the other systems which were:-

ADS/1 + Kikkin2+ TundraS + Totem Arros with Fredriks K200
LP12SE, Radikal/Ukika + KDSM+ TundraS + 242 latest spec + K200

The main system of KDS/1, KK/2, Monos / Solos, 350Ps, may of had mix views as Fredrik likes K200 on the Tweeter with others in the room liking diagonal SuperTweeter to bass. My other view is that others already had KCTs and Solos so more Akurate level on the fence people would of been ideal. As always listening to music in a group can effect the sound/energy but hey enough weirdo stuff. For me Solos do have the edge on classical/female vocals and quite rightly a higher price tag, Monos are rock and roll and able to drive all sorts of speakers - so until Lejonklou Kikkin 3 Pre...

Good luck Anthony and Fredrik later today - hope you like the loan Totem Dreamcatchers - Kans?

The missing track Rufus via my Japanese friend was

Title: Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 6 & 2
Artist: Bernard Haitink | London Symphony Orchestra
Genre: Classical
Label: LSO Live
Release Date: 2006

Track was 'Pastoral': Erwachen heiterer Gefuhle bei der Ankunft 11:39 mins it was played at 176k 24 bit, from HD Tracks

About : Acclaimed conductor Bernard Haitink leads the remarkable London Symphony Orchestra through two of Beethoven’s most popular compositions, symphonies 6 and 2. The works are relaxed and gentle. Recorded at the Barbican theatre in London, this hi-res masterpiece offers a new level of precision and complexity.

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2013-02-16 23:31

I had a very enjoyable few hours at Anthony's today, and it was nice to meet a few other forum folk, and especially to get to meet Fredrik in person.

Thought I'd share a few of my thoughts from the day, but they can be summarised as "the Monos are great amps, and I want a pair!" :)

I thought the Monos were a surprisingly big step up over the Tundra Stereo. Given that a pair cost less than a KCT I would take them in preference (which I wouldn't have with the Stereo). The Solos are still rather ahead of the Monos though in my view, but so they should be at three times the price!

In general I felt that they stuck with "house sound" of the Tundra but improved on it. Previously I found the Tundra didn't cope that well with hard driving electronic music like the Chemical Brothers as well as the KCT did. However, the Monos seemed to handle it much better.

When we moved over to a more acoustic track, the Monos were superb, noticeably better than the KCT in my view. We played the Lianne la Havas track "No Room for Doubt" and you could have heard a pin drop and everyone was silent, and it was the track which was replayed every time anyone new turned up. Hugely atmospheric, very emotional handling of the track by the Monos.

All in all, a great achievement by Fredrik - very well done!

Flatcoat · Post by **Flatcoat** » 2013-02-17 10:31

I also visited Anthonys yesterday to listen to the Monos and more importantly to meet Fredrik. It was a very enjoyable couple hours where the Monos were first compared to the KCTD and then to Solos (dynamiked), with 242s then 350s. My conclusion was that the Monos were streets ahead of the Twin and comparable to the Solos. Which is remarkable when you consider the Monos are one third of the price of Solos.

I have now ordered two sets of Monos which I will combine with two stereo Tundras in my Klimax active 350 system. The eventual aim is to end up with 8 Monos but only after selling my KCTDs.

PS We also briefly heard the Totem Dreamcatcher speakers which are a very small bookshelf design and sounded absolutely brilliant, especially when you consider that they cost £600'ish.

Rufus McDufus · Post by **Rufus McDufus** » 2013-02-17 10:47

The Solo vs Mono comparison still interests me. I was getting to a stage where I was thinking if the Monos didn't compare well that I'd plonk down the cash on some Solos and be guaranteed the best I could buy. I'd never heard Solos before this, but trying Solos and Monos with my own setup at home really surprised me. The Solos didn't sound that good with my kind of music and my system! I was a little disappointed actually. The Monos really did it for me and actually surpassed my already-too-high expectations - which is very good news for my bank account.

Hearing the Solos at Hidden Systems with 350Ps was different. They clearly worked very well with Linn speakers. Another listener, Paul, who has Focal 1028 Be speakers suggested that the Monos might be more universal and work better with non-Linn speakers. This makes a lot of sense to me. I still find Linn power amps and speakers a little too coloured for my liking and those colours have to match each other, but when they do it sounds marvellous. The Tundra does not add its own character to such great extent and that is one of the key things I've really liked about both Tundra Mono & Stereo - and Kikkin too now I come to think about it. All IMHO of course and you're free to think I've been smokin' crack!

Oh, Totem speakers. Hidden Systems has some Totem Aros and I've tried those at home. They are actually astonishing . How such a tiny speaker produces such a full range and so well is really quite humbling. Less detail than much-more expensive speakers but everything else is there.

PSive · Post by **PSive** » 2013-02-18 00:47

I was at Anthony's too, and echo what Rowland and Flatcoat say.

My perspective is a little different, as I have Akurate amps and B&W speakers, and had not heard the Klimax or Tundra amps or the 242s or 350s before - so I was hearing a lot of new stuff.

Impressions as follows: the Twin sounds a lot better than my 4200, but the Monos are in another league altogether. Compared with the solos, I am not sure there is a quality difference, more a matter of style and how you like your music (a point I will return to with the speakers). I preferred the monos to the solos. I know this was a minority view, but the music had more life and texture to my ears and a bit more vibrancy, and the solos sounded a tiny bit harsh in comparison. I will be buying monos when the time is right. Even were they the same price as solos, I would choose them in preference. I can quite see how someone else might feel differently, however.

As far as speakers go, I was so impressed by the 242s. they sounded astonishingly good. I preferred them to the 350s . The 350s were amazing - providing a generous flow of perfect sound, incredible bass, and everything so well balanced and integrated. And the light at the bottom when they are playing is really cool. But somehow, if I am honest, I preferred the slightly edgier sound of the 242s. I suspect (being new to the Linnie world) that this is heresy. But it is how it sounded to me.

Thanks so much to Anthony for the opportunity to listen to this stuff, and also for the chance to meet a really nice bunch of guys too.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2013-02-18 17:40

A lot of talk about the sound...what about the musicality Mono vs other amps?

HIDDENSYSTEMS · Post by **HIDDENSYSTEMS** » 2013-02-18 19:13

Very musical indeed but not tried Mono with other preamps makes ie Naim NAC 552. Any takers and happy to venture out..... Rega don't make PreAmps ....I've got an old LINN Exotik DA at home that could fire up but Akurate level.

In an ideal world what combination would you like to here it? keeping in mind Tune dem rules

anthony · Post by **anthony** » 2013-02-18 19:20

Music Lover wrote:A lot of talk about the sound...what about the musicality Mono vs other amps?

I find both Lejonklou and Linn very musical, to the point I like both.

The gap between them is minimal compared to alternative makes.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2013-02-20 14:02

Agree but can you elaborate?
How do you rate the Monos vs.Twin and Solos from a musical point of view?

As the post from the Lejonklou events describe that the audience had slightly different opinions, I would be interested if the all attendees would describe their view on the musical performance between these amps.

Flatcoat · Post by **Flatcoat** » 2013-02-20 16:15

I personally thought the Klimax Twin, Solos and Tundra Monos were all very musical with little to choose btween them. They are all very enjoyable to listen to.

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2013-02-20 18:16

I felt the musicality of the Monos was a lot better than the KCT. I didn't really have enough time to properly compare with the Solos.

Flatcoat · Post by **Flatcoat** » 2013-02-20 18:34

I did feel that the Tundra Monos were in a different league from the dynamiked Klimax Twin. They had much better control of the music (as did Solos).

Flatcoat · Post by **Flatcoat** » 2013-03-02 21:49

Yesterday I changed the amplification for my Klimax 350 activ system from four dynamik Twins, to two sets of Monos (upper bass and mid), and two stereo Tundras (tweeter and super tweeter). My conclusion is that the system I have now is the best I have ever owned by a massive margin. I was using four stereo Tundras last autumn but substituting the Monos for two of the stereo amps has brought a huge benefit.

I have always liked listening at high volume levels (83 currently on my KK) and this system is incredible at controlling the music even at these levels. The Monos are a very special amplifier.

For the last week or two I have been considering if I was making the right move with investing so much money in Tundra amplification. All I can say is that I have no doubts now and will be ordering two more sets of Monos next week !

PS One problem with all this is that as a result of the above I have now got 4 KCTd's to sell !

Flatcoat wrote:I also visited Anthonys yesterday to listen to the Monos and more importantly to meet Fredrik. It was a very enjoyable couple hours where the Monos were first compared to the KCTD and then to Solos (dynamiked), with 242s then 350s. My conclusion was that the Monos were streets ahead of the Twin and comparable to the Solos. Which is remarkable when you consider the Monos are one third of the price of Solos.

I have now ordered two sets of Monos which I will combine with two stereo Tundras in my Klimax active 350 system. The eventual aim is to end up with 8 Monos but only after selling my KCTDs.

h.

PSive · Post by **PSive** » 2013-03-05 11:03

Flatcoat, you are going to make yourself deaf at 83 - then all your beautiful amplification will be pointless.

Gonzo · Post by **Gonzo** » 2013-03-05 11:52

PSive wrote:Flatcoat, you are going to make yourself deaf at 83 - then all your beautiful amplification will be pointless.

I had my gear KDS/1, KK/1, Ktwin D and 350Ps running at 46 yesterday and my wife asked me to turn it down!

anthony · Post by **anthony** » 2013-03-05 12:25

Gonzo wrote:
PSive wrote:Flatcoat, you are going to make yourself deaf at 83 - then all your beautiful amplification will be pointless.
I had my gear KDS/1, KK/1, Ktwin D and 350Ps running at 46 yesterday and my wife asked me to turn it down!

I listened at 99 then realised my preamp was upside down

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2013-03-05 19:23

Flatcoat, are you running an original KK or a KK/1 (or 2)? I used to run my KK at 83 or 84 all the time and that was with Linn amps and speakers or my ATCs (which seem to have a similar sensitivity). But with the KK/1 and 2 that has dropped to 73 or 74. Of course 83 with Lejonklou amps is equivalent to 75 with Linn amps so we're still in the same range of volume (and I probably have a smaller room). With the right music it can certainly sound great at realistic levels!

Anyway, thanks for the nice report on the Monos.